Curse

JDRyder · Sep 22, 2008, 08:25 PM // 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Easier for whom, everybody?? If you say "yes", then wrong.

Are you that retarded? Whats more powerful a H/H team or a full hero team?

Amy Awien · Sep 22, 2008, 08:26 PM // 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buster

I said no because you do not want to completely shutdown the social aspect of the game.

The availability of (7) heroes (and henchies) also has a positive effect on socializing; knowing that one can always fall back on the reliability of H/H makes failure of a PuG (or consecutive PuG in certain missions) less important and that does make it easier to join a group.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

I read most of the thread. My problem with your earlier post (and many other posts in this thread) is that people make it sound like since the population is dying (or will die) that is the reason they should add 7 heroes. The argument is since there won't be many people to PuG with they should add 7 heroes.

Actually, that's not the argument in favor of 7 heroes, it is one that counters the argument that 7 heroes would lead to a decline in players.

tmr819 · Sep 22, 2008, 09:01 PM // 21:01

I sometimes wonder how difficulty/balance might be affected if, instead of having 7 heroes, the game offered a "6-hero/No hench" option (many players are already accomplishing this via dual accounts). Might this keep the ability to solo with heroes from being too overpowered?

I mean, if there was a choice between the standard 3 heroes/4 henches and, say, 6 heroes/no henches, I wonder which option would be more popular? Would it be fair to say 6 heroes/no henches is approximately as powerful as 3 Heroes/4 henches?

The reason I mention this is that, really, the only valid reason that I have read here in favor of being able to use more heroes is that it would be fun (i.e., to use more of your heroes at a time and play around with their builds and so forth).

I do not have two accounts, so I have never tried playing with six heroes, but I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has done this. How does it compare, difficulty-wise to the more common 3 Hero/4 hench setup?

eximiis · Sep 22, 2008, 09:17 PM // 21:17

To give you an exemple, i've cleared FoW with my 3 heroes and 3 other heroes from a friend and it was fun, easy but who cares about difficulty when everyone knows the game is easy.

Bryant Again · Sep 22, 2008, 10:12 PM // 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

Are you that retarded? Whats more powerful a H/H team or a full hero team?

I would have to say that it depends on who's hands your putting them into - hence not easy for everyone, hence why more heroes will not turn more people away from pugs. If you give a person the opportunity to put more crap into a team build when they'd be much better off bringing henchies, it's definitely not going to make things easier.

illidan009 · Sep 23, 2008, 12:27 AM // 00:27

This thread is still going? I guess it won't die till Anet does something.
I do actually believe now that 7 heros would cause even more decline in PuGging...PvE elitists obviously want them, but for people that understand GW is a GAME, this is not good...Some say it won't affect PuG but how is that possible? We don't have enough experienced players helping newbies as it is, let's not screw it even more.

Inner Salbat · Sep 23, 2008, 01:02 AM // 01:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Ok now you are talking a completely different topic altogether. If they added this to the online store there would be outrage from lots of people. You think they want outrage? I am personally in the camp that selling anything in game in the online store (particularly this) is ridiculous, but that is another thread altogether.

You have to pay bills somehow I don't like it either but I'd pay for it, Perfect World everything is micro transaction but so far I've not seen anything in the that games shop that would prevent anyone completing the game if I found that I probably wouldn't play it, but your right thats a whole other thread unto itself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by illidan009

This thread is still going? I guess it won't die till Anet does something.
I do actually believe now that 7 heros would cause even more decline in PuGging...PvE elitists obviously want them, but for people that understand GW is a GAME, this is not good...Some say it won't affect PuG but how is that possible? We don't have enough experienced players helping newbies as it is, let's not screw it even more.

In part it already is effecting PuGs I've sort decided unless they do something I won't play the game, I come online to help my wife out when she rarely plays it once in a blue moon when she can give a rats ass, even that is only for 30mins or so, also I won't take anyone else with me no matter how much you beg.

So I'm helping the community to it's own destruction if only in small part.

JDRyder · Sep 23, 2008, 01:26 AM // 01:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

I would have to say that it depends on who's hands your putting them into - hence not easy for everyone, hence why more heroes will not turn more people away from pugs. If you give a person the opportunity to put more crap into a team build when they'd be much better off bringing henchies, it's definitely not going to make things easier.

umm no, the henchmen already have crap builds, and knowing GW players 90% of the players will just copy some 0 micro build from pvx that would come out a few days after they added 7heros. Saying "people would only use crap builds" is wrong, as for micro, you already dont have to micro with H/H what makes you think you will have to with 7heros? All you have to do now to win pve is add discord to necros add few henchmen and T+space things.

Zahr Dalsk · Sep 23, 2008, 02:56 AM // 02:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

So you could you and everybody else who wants 7 heroes...

Because unlike JDRyder, we believe that it might be possible for ArenaNet to change their mind. While I'm done with Guild Wars myself, I do want to support the full hero party, because it really would be a good addition to Guild Wars.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner Salbat

[stuff]

That was disconcerting, I thought this was one of my posts by the avatar >.>

...and started wondering why it had that stuff in it :P

R.Shayne · Sep 23, 2008, 05:21 AM // 05:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by illidan009

We don't have enough experienced players helping newbies as it is, let's not screw it even more.

First, who says I have to help these people? If these people had been forced to play the game solo maybe they would have learned to play the game but instead they have gotten a free ride through the game by depending on someone else to beat the game for them.

I am starting to think I am the only one that tries to help these people and the more I do it the worse it gets.

I can recount 3 times in the pass week I have felt sorry for people and offered to help them with missions. The first guy I am pretty sure just wanted to cause pugs grief. The second one attacked anything that he saw on radar and didn't know about interrupting with his ranger. The third listened and changed his build to fit my team of H/H and he actually helped.

Another thing when it is just two people and the rest of the team made up heroes and henchmen it is pretty easy to guess who is drawing the pictures on the radar.

PuG are idiots.

Inner Salbat · Sep 23, 2008, 05:38 AM // 05:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

That was disconcerting, I thought this was one of my posts by the avatar >.>

...and started wondering why it had that stuff in it :P

LOL, yeah I thought it was a good protest sign

Amy Awien · Sep 23, 2008, 06:29 AM // 06:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by illidan009

...PvE elitists obviously want them, but for people that understand GW is a GAME, this is not good...

In case you hadn't noticed, it's the elitists that oppose the 7 heroes, both the (self-proclaimed) top players and those with PvE oriented guilds. It's the not so bad, mediocre and casual player that asks for 7 heroes.

A game is for enjoyment, 7 heroes means more bars to create, teams to tune, less frustration, more fun and thus it would be good for the game.

Next time, please think before you post.

Inner Salbat · Sep 23, 2008, 07:18 AM // 07:18

This has been rattling around in my head for awhile now it's an incomplete thought but I guess it's worth putting it out there, with an increase in heroes that can be taken it could all be it presumptuous that runners could use this for a gold making enterprise take 5 heroes built to combat the area, take 1 person charge X gold to do it.

However that's no different than what is currently available to pay to have ran at the moment anyway.

pamelf · Sep 23, 2008, 12:36 PM // 12:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner Salbat

This has been rattling around in my head for awhile now it's an incomplete thought but I guess it's worth putting it out there, with an increase in heroes that can be taken it could all be it presumptuous that runners could use this for a gold making enterprise take 5 heroes built to combat the area, take 1 person charge X gold to do it.

However that's no different than what is currently available to pay to have ran at the moment anyway.

A player can run completely solo on most missions with the exception of a few where there is only 1 extra needed for the moment.

I actually would only see this as a positive thing, because more people would be able to run, thus undercutting the running prices which were never envisioned as part of the economy in the first place.

If it intruduced running I'd say yes, this is a problem. But running exists, and can be done by anyone solo now. And frankly, taking only one person and a team full of heroes wouldn't be economically viable as you don't get gold from more than one person. Runners currently try to fill their teams up with people being run to get at least 2k out of each of them. Doing a run by filling up with a team of heroes would just be a waste of time.

zwei2stein · Sep 23, 2008, 01:06 PM // 13:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by pamelf

A player can run completely solo on most missions with the exception of a few where there is only 1 extra needed for the moment.

I actually would only see this as a positive thing, because more people would be able to run, thus undercutting the running prices which were never envisioned as part of the economy in the first place.

If it intruduced running I'd say yes, this is a problem. But running exists, and can be done by anyone solo now. And frankly, taking only one person and a team full of heroes wouldn't be economically viable as you don't get gold from more than one person. Runners currently try to fill their teams up with people being run to get at least 2k out of each of them. Doing a run by filling up with a team of heroes would just be a waste of time.

People are willing to pay a LOT for "dedicated runs" where they are the only runee and runs are much faster because there is no waiting for more customers, party is stronger, there is no payment drama, etc etc ...

Being able to join party, go afk for day or so and return with one full HM title is something worth a *LOT* moolah.

It is still not argument against 7h as such stuff is (and is gonna be) marginal.

Inner Salbat · Sep 23, 2008, 01:57 PM // 13:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

People are willing to pay a LOT for "dedicated runs" where they are the only runee and runs are much faster because there is no waiting for more customers, party is stronger, there is no payment drama, etc etc ...

Me included something I'm considering that the time I have to wait for groups to do something would be better spent gaining the gold to pay someone to do it for me, not because I don't want to do it myself I do, but I'm ham strung by henchmen that are retarded and rooted by no PuGs available, and guild that would better of named Dracula guild of dead, not to mention even if you get a PuG you could be wasting your time, so when all the check and balances are in your better off paying someone to do it for you.

Antithesis · Sep 23, 2008, 02:06 PM // 14:06

I've been on a GW hiatus for a few months, 7 heroes might bring me back into the fold.

eximiis · Sep 23, 2008, 02:28 PM // 14:28

@ JDRyder

Don't forget we all know 7 heroes would be better then H/H. But we don't want 7 heroes to make the game easyer, we want them for the "fun"

Simply for the "FUN".

7 heroes, 1 heroes, 5 heroes and a half, we don't pug so to the ppl that don't pug give us 7 heroes for the "fun" (it's a game")

To ppl that pug, go open a new thread with suggestion on how to improve pugs. Heroes has nothing to do with party search and pugs quality (which are the reason pugs are dead)

JDRyder · Sep 23, 2008, 06:19 PM // 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by eximiis

@ JDRyder

Don't forget we all know 7 heroes would be better then H/H. But we don't want 7 heroes to make the game easyer, we want them for the "fun"

Simply for the "FUN".

7 heroes, 1 heroes, 5 heroes and a half, we don't pug so to the ppl that don't pug give us 7 heroes for the "fun" (it's a game")

To ppl that pug, go open a new thread with suggestion on how to improve pugs. Heroes has nothing to do with party search and pugs quality (which are the reason pugs are dead)

making the game easier will not more fun in the long run, in the end your going to be just as bored with 7NPCs as you are with 7hero NPCs. It will be fun for a few days but its not going to "save" GW. There's almost nothing Anet can do to make the game more fun, only thing they can do is add more places like FoW for the other gods (or w/e you want to call them) The content is going to be the same with 7heros and its going to be just as boring.

sixofone · Sep 23, 2008, 06:36 PM // 18:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by eximiis

@ JDRyder

Don't forget we all know 7 heroes would be better then H/H. But we don't want 7 heroes to make the game easyer, we want them for the "fun"

Simply for the "FUN".

7 heroes, 1 heroes, 5 heroes and a half, we don't pug so to the ppl that don't pug give us 7 heroes for the "fun" (it's a game")

To ppl that pug, go open a new thread with suggestion on how to improve pugs. Heroes has nothing to do with party search and pugs quality (which are the reason pugs are dead)

Apparently, one way to improve PUGs is to get rid of heroes. Oi vey...

7 heroes> H&H> PUGs - this seems to be a fact of life in GW. You can read that list as "ease of play" and/or "element of fun" - for most people. Some people prefer PUGs, and that's great. If you enjoy it, go ahead! Myself, I prefer H&H. Far less frustration and better results. (Of course, that's only based on my own experience, and I am not an elite player by any means.)

I play the game for fun, and tweaking builds and seeing how they work is fun for me! I also have learned a lot about professions I don't usually play by using my hero and trying out the build on them.

But, this horse is dead. Beaten, flayed, and even the marrow sucked out. ANet has given no indication that they'll budge. Until they do, it's just a wish list.